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Is the setlist the right choice for Nationals?


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#1
McVol

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Ok, so apparently Rachel has been chosen as our lead again. With no doubt, she nails her solo, It's All Coming Back To Me Now.

The other two songs Edge of Glory and Paradise By The Dashboard Light are good, although I have a feeling they could have been better.

I know some of you have been in long debates for Kurt to get a solo at a competition because let's admit it, he's up there somewhere with Rachel. But why doesn't he get any major role this time or hasn't he proved he was worth a look at? Or this is a one-woman choir?

Glorfindel has been very kind to put on this "Rachel's Competition Distribution" (so Glorfindel thank you and sorry for didn't ask for your permission)

How much did Rachel sing at competitions:
Season 1:
- Sectionals: 2 leads in the only 2 songs, one of them a solo.
- Regionals: 3 leads in the 3 songs.
Season 2:
- Sectionals: this time she didn't sing, although Mr. Schue initially wanted her to, and she threw a very nasty tantrum about that.
- Regionals: 2 leads in the 2 songs: one of them a solo.
- Nationals: 2 leads in the 2 songs.
Season 3:
- Sectionals: she got suspended, and finally someone else got a chance to sing: by default, because Rachel was supposed to sing again.
- Regionals: 2 leads in 3 songs: one of them a solo (the 3rd song being a TT song).
- Nationals: 2 leads in 3 songs: one of them a solo (the 3rd song a TT song).


So what do you think: Are the songs the right choices, are the singers well chosen for Nationals?

#2
Regan

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One quick amendment to the list of competition songs - for first Sectionals, we didn't see it but they finished their set-list with Somebody To Love, so Finn and Rachel would have had the leads, and Mercedes was also featured.

I'm not going to listen to the songs in advance so I can't speak for their quality but, storywise, I think it makes sense that Rachel has the solo. I hate that the Troubletones song guarantee is to be upheld but I like that Tina and Quinn will be included and I hope that the third song is a group number with short solos for a lot of characters, particularly the seniors.

#3
XxTJxX

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i agree with the choice for the Last competition as its the last competition . Rachel gets a solo and part of a song, shes lead of the tv show. It would be more weird if she didn't get them.

It was some of the previous competitions where the writers have gone wrong.


Ok, so apparently Rachel has been chosen as our lead again. With no doubt, she nails her solo, It's All Coming Back To Me Now.

I know some of you have been in long debates for Kurt to get a solo at a competition because let's admit it, he's up there somewhere with Rachel. But why doesn't he get any major role this time or hasn't he proved he was worth a look at? Or this is a one-woman choir?


kurt would of had a solo season 2 but left to go to a different school and should of previously had a solo in one of the competitions, but its too late now.

and if this was a one woman choir, she would be singing major roles in all 3 songs, but she is only major role in one, the solo.

#4
Glorfindel

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Just to clarify, and to avoid a discussion again: that list was taken from another thread (and you certainly have my permission @Courvoisier :) ) and was strictly made from a Rachel POV, to illustrate how much she has sung in 3 years.

It is not a complete neutral list and does not include:
- how much the other characters sung at competitions,
- songs that were not shown on screen (like 'Somebody To Love'),
- songs that were assigned by Mr. Schue but for some reason were not sung at the competition itself (like when the set list was stolen or when Kurt fled to Dalton),
- songs several characters sung with the Troubletones or the Warblers.

Just putting in a disclaimer before all hell breaks loose. :P

#5
Moni

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Personally I prefer group numbers at competitions. Solos just don't give me a choir feeling.

And I am against the TT. They lost after all. Santana and Mercedes are part of the ND now. They can be given solo parts as part of the ND. I just don't like it, that all of the guys have to leave the stage for the TT and that we have those no name Cheerios on stage.

#6
Gleekeroni

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I hate Kurt's voice with a burning passion, so I am perfectly fine with him not singing at competitions. I don't understand why he doesn't, but I'm ok with it. But Rachel is Rachel, and that is why people dislike her. If they were to show Kurt, Santana, or Mercedes fighting for solos, then it's yay you go boy or girl. Rachel however can't do that. Not only because she has already gotten solos(which to some people means she shouldn't want anymore.....whatever), but also because she is Rachel. Plain and simple. The resentment won't go away. I personally don't see Kurt as talented as Rachel and don't know why they keep saying it, but they do and I completely understand that sort of frustration with him not being able to sing. I would rather Santana and Mercedes, and even Tina fight harder. Either way Rachel is always going to be Rachel, and that means she will fight for what she wants, and do a lot of stupid things in the process, and people hating on her for it only makes me love her even more.

#7
The Big Berry

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A duet like Faithfully would be perfect. The two solos at the first and the choir joining in. They could still showcase the leads while also let the choir provide strong background support (not like the Rachel solos when the girls backup only, not the boys).

I loved Faithfully, but Finn is totally NOT A STRONG SINGER. William Schuester (RIB+ actually), stop making Finn the lead (sadly it's already the last competition)! Kurt is a lot better, seriously, Finn can't sing and 'dance like a zombie who has to poop'.

Not to insult Finn but he's really, really not a strong singer and definitely NOT competition material.

I hate Kurt's voice with a burning passion, so I am perfectly fine with him not singing at competitions. I don't understand why he doesn't, but I'm ok with it. But Rachel is Rachel, and that is why people dislike her. If they were to show Kurt, Santana, or Mercedes fighting for solos, then it's yay you go boy or girl. Rachel however can't do that. Not only because she has already gotten solos(which to some people means she shouldn't want anymore.....whatever), but also because she is Rachel. Plain and simple. The resentment won't go away. I personally don't see Kurt as talented as Rachel and don't know why they keep saying it, but they do and I completely understand that sort of frustration with him not being able to sing. I would rather Santana and Mercedes, and even Tina fight harder. Either way Rachel is always going to be Rachel, and that means she will fight for what she wants, and do a lot of stupid things in the process, and people hating on her for it only makes me love her even more.


I'm sorry but you don't make sense in the highlighted sentences.
Also Chris Colfer is not as talented as Lea Michele, but in the show Kurt is written to be as talented as Rachel, and as a viewer you should believe it.

ps. Rachel may do a lot of 'crazy things' in order to fight for the solo, but that does not make her deserve the solo. I understand she's very talented (and IMO she does deserve the solo), but fighting for the solo does not make you deserve it.

#8
ry_kurtsie

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Rachel should've only got a few lines in a group song. She already had two songs in Regionals and that was more than enough for this season. Or if she had to sing 2 songs now they should have given other people a chance to sing at Regionals. They didn't even bothered to explain why she had so much at Regionals.

I don't like the TTones deal either. I agreed with Mercedes when she left ND but it's unfair to other members now that they are singing at every competition. And Santana was the last person who should've been complaining when she already got a solo.

It's ridiculous Kurt is getting nothing again. Even Mike and Brittany sang more than him at competitions. I can't believe Will saw both Kurt's and Rachel's auditions and still giving Kurt nothing.

#9
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I don't have a problem with Rachel getting a solo and a group lead in her last ever Nationals. She's always been their "star" and it's a fitting way to end her show choir competition journey.
I think the main problem is they should've rectified this issue in previous competitions. Sectionals (which featured other people by default) and Regionals should've been the time to showcase other talents because they deserve it. It's not like they couldn't have won without Rachel, they've done it before.

#10
Gleekeroni

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A duet like Faithfully would be perfect. The two solos at the first and the choir joining in. They could still showcase the leads while also let the choir provide strong background support (not like the Rachel solos when the girls backup only, not the boys).

I loved Faithfully, but Finn is totally NOT A STRONG SINGER. William Schuester (RIB+ actually), stop making Finn the lead (sadly it's already the last competition)! Kurt is a lot better, seriously, Finn can't sing and 'dance like a zombie who has to poop'.

Not to insult Finn but he's really, really not a strong singer and definitely NOT competition material.



I'm sorry but you don't make sense in the highlighted sentences.
Also Chris Colfer is not as talented as Lea Michele, but in the show Kurt is written to be as talented as Rachel, and as a viewer you should believe it.

ps. Rachel may do a lot of 'crazy things' in order to fight for the solo, but that does not make her deserve the solo. I understand she's very talented (and IMO she does deserve the solo), but fighting for the solo does not make you deserve it.

Haha what? I should believe it because that's what they tell me. How about no. And you just contradicted yourself. Im gonna let you think about it for a moment. Also nowhere in my post did i say the words that she deserves solos, because she fights for them. Read it again.

#11
Regan

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I know some of you have been in long debates for Kurt to get a solo at a competition because let's admit it, he's up there somewhere with Rachel. But why doesn't he get any major role this time or hasn't he proved he was worth a look at? Or this is a one-woman choir?


I think it's a case of Kurt being one of New Directions' best singers but Chris Colfer isn't one of Glee's best selling singers. In canon, Kurt is as talented as Rachel but Lea Michele's songs sell better than Chris Colfer's, so Rachel is more likely to get the solos. 

It'd make more sense for the show runners not to write the characters who won't be getting the big solos as not being as talented as the ones who will. By insisting that Kurt (and, particularly in previous seasons, Mercedes) is just as talented as Rachel, they're leaving themselves and characters like Will open to criticism when he's not featured whereas it'd be understandable for Kurt not to get the big competition solos if the canon assessment of his singing was that he was good but not in Rachel's league.

#12
wirsig

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I don't have a problem with Rachel getting a solo and a group lead in her last ever Nationals. She's always been their "star" and it's a fitting way to end her show choir competition journey.
I think the main problem is they should've rectified this issue in previous competitions. Sectionals (which featured other people by default) and Regionals should've been the time to showcase other talents because they deserve it. It's not like they couldn't have won without Rachel, they've done it before.

Exactly they had a chance at both Sectionals and Regionals to give people more solos part. I personally hate the Sectionals song because you can't even tell who is singing what, way too many voices.

Rachel didn't need to sing Here's to us at Regionals either. I mean really the narrative of that was so Quinn could see that Rachel was in love with Finn, I mean really that was unnecessary especially considering she sang on the other song.

But the narrative of Rachel having a solo seems to be needed in Nationals, so I have no problem with that.

I'm not so sure Rachel singing over Kurt is due to song sales, I think it is more about narrative most of the time. And if it is about narrative good chances are Rachel will be involved. Even if that narrative is weak. I also think as in group number they still don't always know how to incorporate him so to have him have major lead in a group song it always hit or miss.

#13
The Big Berry

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Haha what? I should believe it because that's what they tell me. How about no. And you just contradicted yourself. Im gonna let you think about it for a moment. Also nowhere in my post did i say the words that she deserves solos, because she fights for them. Read it again.


I mean like Rachel deserves her solos (and her solos actually sell well, so RIB+ would've certainly preferred for her to have more solos). She does deserve her solos. I certainly agree with you that Rachel fights for her solos (and basically what she wants), but she had and has her solos because of her talent and voice.

Exactly they had a chance at both Sectionals and Regionals to give people more solos part. I personally hate the Sectionals song because you can't even tell who is singing what, way too many voices.


That's what a real choir is, actually. I love Rachel and would love to see her featured in Nationals, but more voices would be nice IMO, since that's what (at least IMO) a real choir is and Rachel can still get leads on the group songs.

#14
Graffme

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Cory/Finn may not be the strongest singer in the group (although I think he's a lot better than people give him credit for), but he can act well and sing at the same time, and I think that's typically needed during competitions when Finn/Rachel have storylines. It sounds like PBtDL will be theatrical, too, so again, the acting is important. I'm not the biggest fan of Chris Colfer's voice in group songs, I'll admit. He tends to stand out, and not necessarily in a good way. I have a hard time imagining his voice leading PBtDL or him as Kurt trying to believably want to get into Rachel's pants. I understand people being upset that Kurt is supposed to be the male equivalent of Rachel according to the narrative and yet rarely gets to sing, but it doesn't really bother me to not have him featured in competitions.

Mostly I'm just thrilled that there's a return to classic rock during a competition, and like someone else said, there's a narrative reason for Rachel to be leading (as there usually is during competition episodes.)

I mean like Rachel deserves her solos (and her solos actually sell well, so RIB+ would've certainly preferred for her to have more solos). She does deserve her solos. I certainly agree with you that Rachel fights for her solos (and basically what she wants), but she had and has her solos because of her talent and voice.



That's what a real choir is, actually. I love Rachel and would love to see her featured in Nationals, but more voices would be nice IMO, since that's what (at least IMO) a real choir is and Rachel can still get leads on the group songs.

Glee has never been anything like a real choir though. I agree that none of this stuff would make sense in an actual school show choir, but that's because it's a tv show. There isn't just a matter of making sure everyone gets a chance to sing, there's also a necessity to make things fit within the narrative.

#15
The Big Berry

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Glee has never been anything like a real choir though. I agree that none of this stuff would make sense in an actual school show choir, but that's because it's a tv show. There isn't just a matter of making sure everyone gets a chance to sing, there's also a necessity to make things fit within the narrative.


Which is very sad in my opinion.

#16
Moni

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I think it's a case of Kurt being one of New Directions' best singers but Chris Colfer isn't one of Glee's best selling singers.


They give him quite often Broadway songs and let him sing very high. I guess because it is part of the Kurt character. This really doesn't help in regards to the charts. I think most people generally prefer pop songs over Broadway songs and like his voice more, when he doesn't sing extremely high.

#17
Glorfindel

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The music arrangers of Glee know how to use Kurt/Chris in group numbers or in solos. RIB just don't use their expertise, but pick the wrong songs, let Kurt always sing high to establish that his character is femme (when he's more than capable to blend in when necessary), and are more interesting in love triangles than musical technicalities and details. RIB have no musical knowledge and should not be the ones making those decissions: they should listen to the experts who do know how to integrate Kurt in a group number and have done so succesfully before.
Kurt can sing everything that Blaine has sung in the past, as he is also a tenor, and most of what Finn and the other boys have sung too: this should not be a problem. The song can also be re-arranged to fit his voice (just listen to NTBND). Some people may not like a countertenor singing, but with the right song it would be no problem (ie. Mika).
Glee not knowing how to use Chris/Kurt's voice is a lame and invalid excuse, and again: laziness of the writers.

Exactly they had a chance at both Sectionals and Regionals to give people more solos part. I personally hate the Sectionals song because you can't even tell who is singing what, way too many voices.

I agree that Rachel, as Glee's star, not so much as ND's star, should get one (!) solo/lead at Nationals, but I prefer that to be a duet or a lead in a choir number, not a solo song. Noone in show choir should sing a solo song at a competition. As someone else said: that is not show choir. Hearing "many voices" in a song, however, is.
They should leave the solo songs in the choir room.

I'm not so sure Rachel singing over Kurt is due to song sales, I think it is more about narrative most of the time. And if it is about narrative good chances are Rachel will be involved. Even if that narrative is weak.

Disagree. The narrative of season 3 has Kurt fighting for NYADA just as much as Rachel. The narrative itself has me believe that Kurt has wanted to be a performer for years and that Kurt is as talented as Rachel and Mercedes, and Mr. Schue and Sue know it too.
As a Kurtsie I would be reasonably upset about Kurt not singing in a competition ever, because I want my favorite to sing just like anybody else. But knowing that narratively it makes absolutely no sense at all, and it even goes against the narrative that he doesn't sing, has me furious and about to quit this show.

What is adding insult to injury now is that we know that Sue does give Kurt a solo, in drag, to compete against Wade/Unique, but we know it won't happen. That will be the 2nd time RIB troll us with a Kurt solo at a competition without giving it to us, and Kurt will be the only kid in ND who will graduate McKinley High without ever getting a proper solo at a competition within ND, when he's been established as talented as Rachel and Mercedes. This is grating.

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As a musician it bothers me that 4 out of the 5 songs that are done at competitions in Glee are not choir songs at all. They are either solos or duets, with a little do-wopping and swaying in the back to make them appear as choir songs, but they are not.
I don't mind duets so much, those can be part of a good choir set list, as long as there are group numbers to compensate them, but solos have no place in a choir competition, imo, and that unfortunately means that a lot of songs that Rachel has sung in competition, no matter how beautiful, do not get a pass from me. I don't mind Rachel singing a lead at every competition, but I prefer that to be a duet or a lead in a choir number, not a solo song.

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My dream set list for Nationals would be:
1) A Hummelberry duet:
- Rachel is ND's star, she deserves a solo, and she could need the exposure after her failed audition. If Carmen is there and reserves 1 or 2 places in NYADA for soloists at Nationals, this might be a good opportunity for Rachel.
- Kurt deserves a solo after nailing his audition, and being considered as talented as Rachel and Mercedes.
- Plus Hummelberry is one of the best duet partners ND has to offer.

2) Troubletones + Quinn and Tina, without the dancing extras:
- We're stuck with the TT deal, and although I loathe that deal, it would be bad if Mr. Schue breaks his promise.
- Including Quinn and Tina (all other girls except for lead Rachel) is nice, but I'd preferred it if Santana and Mercedes had asked Quinn and Tina to join, instead of them singing only because Mercedes got sick.
- Especially Mercedes deserves a good lead: she hasn't had one yet in ND, and she could use the exposure to become a professional singer.

3) A Group Number, with all the seniors getting lines, especially those who were not featured yet in the previous 2 songs (Finn and Puck):
- This is their goodbye, after all. Maybe they will not be off the show, but the seniors will be leaving high school and ND.
- All the seniors are talented enough to not screw up the few lines they might get: Mr. Schue would not be taking a risk of losing Nationals over that, imo.
- I love some of the juniors, and Artie would be the only one of the original 5 not getting a solo (as Tina will be in the TT), but this time it's okay: the juniors should be swaying in the background at Nationals.

#18
wirsig

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Disagree. The narrative of season 3 has Kurt fighting for NYADA just as much as Rachel.

Not so much now he nailed his audition. The narrative now is Rachel needs another chance.

And yes it isn't very choiry, but I thought it was silly when the Sectionals songs came out and no one even knew who was singing what.

It maybe more true to life to have big choir number but it isn't as entertaining or good IMO.

#19
XxTJxX

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My dream set list for Nationals would be:
1) A Hummelberry duet:
- Rachel is ND's star, she deserves a solo, and she could need the exposure after her failed audition. If Carmen is there and reserves 1 or 2 places in NYADA for soloists at Nationals, this might be a good opportunity for Rachel.
- Kurt deserves a solo after nailing his audition, and being considered as talented as Rachel and Mercedes.
- Plus Hummelberry is one of the best duet partners ND has to offer.


i do love my Hummelberry duets as much as the next person which there was like none this season.. stupid, and would of loved to of seen it in regionals or sectionals. But for nationals it should be a solo, and there's only one person it can go to (due to narrative, lead of the tv show) because you always go for your trusted 'star', even if you've said others are just as good.


Not so much now he nailed his audition. The narrative now is Rachel needs another chance.

It maybe more true to lief to have big choir number but it isn't as entertaining or good IMO.


yes not as entertaining .
a true show choir uses harmony's for whole choir singing with a couple of their best singers singing main parts.. if it was that it would be a lot more Rachel focus, but thankfully its not a real show choir as there would be more hatred than there already is.... that and pop/ random genres are being used instead.

and then if you go back to glee and see VA who've won.. it is just one person singing. but we don't get that with ND because they are different.

#20
Gleek223

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Apparently Kurt and Blaine were not originally meant to sing in Paradise By the Dashboard Light but Adam Anders decided to put them in anyways. Based off what Alex Anders tweeted, it seems Adam Anders is the one who puts Chris and Darren in songs even if RIB or the script doesn't call for it.




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